Author Topic: Weather ... or not  (Read 89994 times)

mo

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1950 on: March 01, 2010, 07:15:24 PM »
Quote
the driving force that ultimately sends the Gulf Stream northward

This is probably a stupid question, but I have no shame  :P

Is it really clear what drives the Gulf Stream, or is it just as debatable or controversial as global warming? 

Changes to the Gulf Stream pattern is what scares me the most, or maybe I should say is more of my immediate concern.
It's symbolic of our struggle against reality.

flipper

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1951 on: March 01, 2010, 07:51:11 PM »
...but if the Gulf Stream stops visiting Europe, a lot of people are going to be awfully miserable.
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Lindsey Buckinghmof

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1952 on: March 01, 2010, 08:40:36 PM »
Quote
the driving force that ultimately sends the Gulf Stream northward

This is probably a stupid question, but I have no shame  :P

Is it really clear what drives the Gulf Stream, or is it just as debatable or controversial as global warming? 

Changes to the Gulf Stream pattern is what scares me the most, or maybe I should say is more of my immediate concern.

No, it's not controversial. It's pretty straightforward physics. Er. I mean, it seems straightforward now, but yeah. What's hard is forecasting what the inputs to the equations will be, if you get my drift. Some of the problems are non-linear. How much is the Greenland ice sheet going to melt? How fast? If it melts abruptly, there will probably be a huge, immediate effect on circulation. If it melts slowly, there may not be as much net effect even far in the future.

This is perhaps one of the big things people don't get about climate change. It's non-linear. The absolute values (of things like greenhouse gases in the atmosphere) matter, but the *rate of change* matters more. A slow rise in CO2 matches the weathering of the continental crust better, which buffers the chemistry of the ocean and allows feedback mechanisms to catch up. A fast rise outstrips the ability of the geosphere and the hydrosphere to catch up, leading to positive feedbacks occurring and way more warming and chemical change than you'd predict from just looking at the state values. Needless to say the rise in CO2 that's going on now is very, very fast in the geological time scale.
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Lindsey Buckinghmof

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1953 on: March 01, 2010, 08:44:04 PM »
And I should say that global warming isn't controversial. Any controversy is made up by non-scientists or highly focused and provincial scientists with axes to grind. There are always cranks, who think they're the only one out there who really knows the truth. They're usually wrong.

There's huge uncertainty in forecasting the future. That doesn't invalidate the laws of physics.
"...as hard as regular caulk" - Random Axe
"21 years of marriage has dealt a death blow to all the local pizzerias." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It's one of our many romantic fantasies that keeps dragging us down as a species" - Random Axe;
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d
"You people are freaks. I can't take that kind of responsibility on right now." - :hoss:
"...there was more penis than I expected, which is not something I often have to say." - Random Axe

Lindsey Buckinghmof

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1954 on: March 01, 2010, 08:45:10 PM »
AND LAST: The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask.
"...as hard as regular caulk" - Random Axe
"21 years of marriage has dealt a death blow to all the local pizzerias." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It's one of our many romantic fantasies that keeps dragging us down as a species" - Random Axe;
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d
"You people are freaks. I can't take that kind of responsibility on right now." - :hoss:
"...there was more penis than I expected, which is not something I often have to say." - Random Axe

random axe

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1955 on: March 01, 2010, 09:10:41 PM »
Yeah -- two things I gotta add because people at Fark and coming through my shop never understand them:

1)  Naturally occurring mechanisms that sort of compensate for climate change exist because Nature hates any extreme situation, not just a vacuum.  A lot of people seem to think that these processes exist because Nature naturally wouldn't let things get too bad for us.  You know, the whole The Earth Is Too Big To Fail humanocentric Intelligent Design attitude of how stuff has happened before and will happen again and it can't possibly affect us too much you alarmist twits.

Really, you'd think a forest fire would be Exhibit A in the case of People vs You're An Idiot.  Sometimes things get too bad for everyone.


2)  The controversies related to global warming have to do with specific individual studies, researchers, component theories, and data sets.  This whole idea that one bit was wrong and one detail was retracted and therefore the whole thing is crap is like discovering that the milk in your fridge has spoiled and concluding that all cows are just bullshit, man.

Although if you live near a ranch that raises steer, I do understand how you could tend toward that conclusion anyway.

PVC Barbie

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1956 on: March 01, 2010, 09:16:48 PM »
Yeah, yeah, see if you keep laughing when there's an Inuit ghetto in Louhvul.

Good thing I'm not in LOLville anymore. No Inuit - no matter how much firewater they've had - is going to put their boat anywhere near Shively.  :D
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mrcookieface

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1957 on: March 01, 2010, 09:37:57 PM »
AND LAST: The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


random axe

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1958 on: March 01, 2010, 09:43:56 PM »
That's when it STARTED, mang.


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Lindsey Buckinghmof

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1959 on: March 02, 2010, 12:50:21 AM »
AND LAST: The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?



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"...as hard as regular caulk" - Random Axe
"21 years of marriage has dealt a death blow to all the local pizzerias." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It's one of our many romantic fantasies that keeps dragging us down as a species" - Random Axe;
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d
"You people are freaks. I can't take that kind of responsibility on right now." - :hoss:
"...there was more penis than I expected, which is not something I often have to say." - Random Axe

mo

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1960 on: March 02, 2010, 05:50:42 AM »
AND LAST: The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask.

Not true, because I was thinking Jet Stream as I was typing Gulf Stream  :lol:

Quote
And I should say that global warming isn't controversial.

Yeah, I knew that was coming. You were kinder than I expected. I couldn't figure out exactly how to phrase that without sounding like I didn't "believe in" global warming.
It's symbolic of our struggle against reality.

Lindsey Buckinghmof

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1961 on: March 02, 2010, 10:05:30 AM »
I was such a grouchy beyotch yesterday ;) I have to be a language snob about this stuff now -- I know you're on the right page.
"...as hard as regular caulk" - Random Axe
"21 years of marriage has dealt a death blow to all the local pizzerias." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It's one of our many romantic fantasies that keeps dragging us down as a species" - Random Axe;
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d
"You people are freaks. I can't take that kind of responsibility on right now." - :hoss:
"...there was more penis than I expected, which is not something I often have to say." - Random Axe

Lindsey Buckinghmof

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1962 on: March 02, 2010, 10:10:05 AM »
The Jet Stream is also interesting!

I'm probably repeating myself, but one of the ways the excess energy imparted to the atmosphere by global warming is dissipated is through big weather events. Some of which are manifested as the jet stream moving south of its usual course. Thus the 'more snow because of global warming' thing that gets the uninformed so agitated.
"...as hard as regular caulk" - Random Axe
"21 years of marriage has dealt a death blow to all the local pizzerias." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It's one of our many romantic fantasies that keeps dragging us down as a species" - Random Axe;
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d
"You people are freaks. I can't take that kind of responsibility on right now." - :hoss:
"...there was more penis than I expected, which is not something I often have to say." - Random Axe

mo

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1963 on: March 02, 2010, 12:12:19 PM »
Yeah, I know - droughts here last year, floods here this year, etc...
It's symbolic of our struggle against reality.

PVC Barbie

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Re: Weather ... or not
« Reply #1964 on: March 02, 2010, 12:34:35 PM »
There was a highly localized jet stream event here yesterday .......... wait, wrong thread.
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