Author Topic: Stupid Questions  (Read 31195 times)

stormneedle

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2010, 12:03:14 PM »
:popcorn:
/turns page, wanting more
I'm generalizing from one example here, but everyone generalizes from one example. At least, I do.

Dr. Leonard HmofCoy

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2010, 12:51:07 PM »
Never heard the word before this week.
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mybabysmomma

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2010, 12:52:21 PM »
Never heard the word before this week.

I hadn't either.  I looked it up because I thought it was a made up media word.
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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2010, 01:42:13 PM »
Never heard the word before this week.

I hadn't either.  I looked it up because I thought it was a made up media word.

I was too lazy to look it up.  I figured I'd garner what is was eventually from you people.  YOU PEOPLE!
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mo

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2010, 07:36:51 AM »
Stupid question, I would have no idea how to Google, and I'm not really even sure how to phrase it:

On my way to work I cross a river. At certain times of the year, the valley that the river lies in will be filled with like a fog. This fog, for lack of a better term, lies only over the water. It's like the fog rises off the river. I've wanted to take pictures of this for a long time, but I only cross the river on my way to work, so I don't have time for it when I see it. I'm trying to figure out weather factors that make this phenomenon occur so that on my days off I can go get pictures of it.

My best guess is that it occurs when the water is much warmer than the air above it, but it seems there must be other factors at play, like maybe the humidity needs to be low. There also has to be no wind. So I'm looking for something like this:

Temperature drop/rise of X degrees from previous day
Humidity above/below X%
Wind Speed 0
Barometer - relevant?
Dewpoint - relevant?

Anyone have a clue?
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random axe

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2010, 07:57:28 AM »
When the water is warmer than the air, especially if the air is pretty still, you can definitely get funky water-hugging fog effects.  One thing you have to know about water is that water is always evaporating.  Even ice is always evaporating (slowly, and technically mostly it's sublimating), no matter how cold it is.  Water molecules don't hang onto each other super-tightly, which is why it's a liquid at room temperature. 

Water's always causing humidity, if you want to think about it that way.  And the colder the air is, the less moisture it can absorb.  The more humid the air already is, the less moisture it can absorb.  So if the air can't hold anymore water, and there's no wind, you can get fog sitting its ass on the water in weird ways.  I guess it might technically be mist rather than fog; I'm not sure about the rules there.

In Vermont, we had a lot of really cold mornings where there would be a zillion distinct little columns of mist rising up off the river, maybe two to five feet high.  The upper boundary was always a flat plane -- there was a ceiling beyond which the mist evaporated.  The columns are a little wavy and maybe a foot away from each other.  It's pretty trippy.  The river was very slow in the middle of the winter, with no thawing going on, and the effect was pretty phenomenal behind the dam, where the river was fat and especially lazy.

Dr. Leonard HmofCoy

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2010, 08:44:30 AM »
This is a big thing in the winter, here, and can get pretty huge in the valleys. I think what's going on is the water vapor cools to the dew point pretty fast as it rises off the water. It's got to be still (moving air will mix the air hanging in the depressions so you don't get those cold blops at the low points), etc.
"Parasitic wasps laying eggs in other insects is a better love story than Twilight." - :bitzero:
"Anyhow, it was the best sentient food movie since Killer Tomatoes Eat France." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It failed. My enemies have been purged." - Sidious
"It's not like there was ever a time I didn't think Rudy Giuliani was a smug gibbering imbecile." - random axe
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d

mo

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2010, 02:03:38 PM »
Working off that Wikipedia link, I think what I'm referring to is "Steam fog", and what you're referring to is "Tule fog". And from what I gathered, the conditions for each are pretty different. The steam fog is more related to temperature difference between water and air, and the Tule fog is more related to dewpoint, as you already said. It's a bit confusing for my tiny brain. Different terms are used on different sites, and I don't understand some of the basic fundamentals to begin with. Most of the stuff I'm finding is either too basic, or too advanced, like this:

Quote
Abstract

The characteristics of fogs resulting from the advection of cold air over warm water (steam fog and sea smoke) are investigated. They are found to occur with air temperatures between 5 and 40C lower than the water temperature, in winds from calm to gale; they have liquid water contents in the range 001-05 gm−3, extend in height from 1 to 1,500 m and commonly exhibit either a columnar or banded structure. A study of their occurrence in Atlantic waters reveals a marked concentration in the western regions in the winter months because of the proximity of warm ocean and cold continent.

Through the use of equations for turbulent transfer it is shown that the occurrence of steaming is related to the well-known fact that two masses of unsaturated air at different temperatures when mixed together can yield a supersaturated or foggy mixture. In deriving the connexion the equality of transfer coefficients for heat and water vapour is assumed.

The circumstances in which steaming occurs are defined. the difference in the temperatures of the air and water must exceed a threshold which is dependent on the humidity of the air and the temperature and salinity of the water: its value, in the range 515C, is a minimum when the air is moist and the water cold and fresh. the liquid water content and vertical extent of steaming increase as the thermal contrast increases. Close agreement is found between observations of the onset of steaming and the computed threshold values.

 :trance:

There's a PDF with that. I think I'll download it and try to rummage through it to see if I can figure it out.
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mo

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2010, 02:05:29 PM »
Bah. Have to be a member or pay for the damn PDF.  :angry:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qj.49709038405/abstract
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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2010, 02:07:18 PM »
Tule fog is what we would get in Davis.  I remember driving up highway 113 hugging the right side of the road and counting the breaks in the white line to find my exit.  Road 25A, road 27, road 29, ah here it is.
"It all trickles down from the hot sex. I'm not saying you don't need cheese, just that if you concentrate on the hot sex, the cheese will follow. Naturally."--PsiDefect 03-19-2002 11:28 AM

eldiem

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2010, 02:07:42 PM »
I understood most of that, but it gives me some good grad school PTSD.

Dr. Leonard HmofCoy

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2010, 02:12:05 PM »
Bah. Have to be a member or pay for the damn PDF.  :angry:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qj.49709038405/abstract

Or, um, have an institutional subscription. :innocent:

oh frak who do I care, that article is fifty years old. :P
"Parasitic wasps laying eggs in other insects is a better love story than Twilight." - :bitzero:
"Anyhow, it was the best sentient food movie since Killer Tomatoes Eat France." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It failed. My enemies have been purged." - Sidious
"It's not like there was ever a time I didn't think Rudy Giuliani was a smug gibbering imbecile." - random axe
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d

mo

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2010, 02:13:48 PM »
Hehe. I knew you would  ;)

thanks, dood.
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eldiem

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #88 on: October 08, 2010, 02:16:02 PM »
I tried downloading it through my library's site but they were all like nooooooooo :(

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Re: Stupid Questions
« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2010, 02:24:01 PM »
It can also be caused by some stupid with a flare gun.