Author Topic: Sedition?  (Read 6697 times)

Dr. Leonard HmofCoy

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Sedition?
« on: March 29, 2010, 02:11:53 PM »
No. Hate the idea that they're charging people with that. That is not going anywhere good. They got these fucking redneck assholes on conspiracy to attempt murder and all kinds of illegal weapons. Good enough. They can RICO the living fuck out of their organization and that's that. Sedition laws should be unconstitutional.

Your thoughts?
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random axe

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 02:30:15 PM »
How are those people not terrorists?  They're organized extremists who planned wholesale public violence against non-specific targets (police, but not specific individual police officers) in order to promote an ideological cause.

They're terrorists.  If they were Islamic instead of Christian, there wouldn't be a moment's hesitation.


Sedition is for, like, members of the military who plot a coup.  Oh, wait, we have those now, publically.  What are they called, Promise Keepers?  Something like that?

mybabysmomma

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 02:37:39 PM »
Sedition laws have been ruled unconstitutional on several occassions if I am not mistaken.  I believe they are directly at odds with the First Amendment.  As far as I am educated, and that's not far, they seem to be dragged out as a politcal shut up card.

And I agree they should be brought to trial on attempted murder and illegal weapons charges.
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Hedaira

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2010, 02:38:47 PM »
They're terrorists and should be treated as such. End of argument.
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Dr. Leonard HmofCoy

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2010, 02:39:48 PM »
Hmm. Maybe this is semantics, but I thought 'sedition' was 'treasonous talk' -- emphasis on talk. Perhaps this has been redefined. I want these people to feel free to say whatever they want so we can more easily know what they are.

Of course they're effing terrorists. But we should not have to use 'special' fascist laws to prosecute them. They are (also) common criminals and should be treated as such.

Speaking of which I just learned John Yoo is teaching at Boalt Hall (UC Berkeley law school). Yet another way in which my university system does not fail to disappoint.
"Parasitic wasps laying eggs in other insects is a better love story than Twilight." - :bitzero:
"Anyhow, it was the best sentient food movie since Killer Tomatoes Eat France." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It failed. My enemies have been purged." - Sidious
"It's not like there was ever a time I didn't think Rudy Giuliani was a smug gibbering imbecile." - random axe
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d

Psidefect

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2010, 02:40:02 PM »
Gitmo their asses.
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random axe

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2010, 02:52:50 PM »
Sedition is usually a BS charge, no question.  If you're in the military, say, you don't have full First Amendment rights anymore.  Whether you should or not is a separate question.  Personally, I don't believe the feds or a state government should get to curtail your Constitutional rights after you're released from prison, even -- the idea of ex-prisoners not being allowed to vote is retardedly un-American -- so I think I'm pretty liberal on this issue.  But there are still special cases.

Of course, when they first nab people, they often chalk up a ridiculous list of Things We Might Charge Them With that later gets whittled down to something more manageable.  Often still retarded, but usually less so.


I dunno about Yoo.  From everything I've heard, although there's doubtless much I haven't, he seems to

(A) Have a legitimate I Was Just Doing My Job defense.  These are pretty rare.  But he was a legal expert asked to see if the law allowed XYZ.  His job was to make the case, period, and it's probably a good idea for legal experts to be allowed to do that job if that's what they're asked to do.  The blame bounces back upward when it gets to him, I think.

(B) Have been selected as a scapegoat by his superiors because they're pretty sure he can defend himself on these charges.  The superiors, again, are the ones who really suck fascist dick.

(C) Have not actually argued in favor of using torture.  Near as I've been able to tell, he's never recommended it, said it was a good idea, said it was a useful technique, or said he was in favor of it.  They asked him to make a legal case, and he did, and it's either really professional or fairly disturbing that he hasn't expressed a personal and moral opinion about it. 

I also think the legal case is basically bullshit and loophole sophistry at best, but that's another issue.  Yoo might be a dick; I can't tell.  But I don't think anyone should focus on him so long as Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, et al, are walking around instead of in court, if not in prison.

Dr. Leonard HmofCoy

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2010, 02:58:07 PM »
Yoo might be a dick; I can't tell. 

Oh yes, he is a dick.
"Parasitic wasps laying eggs in other insects is a better love story than Twilight." - :bitzero:
"Anyhow, it was the best sentient food movie since Killer Tomatoes Eat France." - :flipper:
"lee marvin in drag is no way to spread the gospel, son." - TFJ
"It failed. My enemies have been purged." - Sidious
"It's not like there was ever a time I didn't think Rudy Giuliani was a smug gibbering imbecile." - random axe
"*drags taint* Oh cool, I didn't know you could do that." - mo.d

Psidefect

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2010, 03:05:55 PM »
All I know about the guy is what I saw in his Daily Show appearance, and yeah, he definitely came off as a dick.

And not only because of what he's written/said politically. He was just a dick to JS. Granted he was going into the lion's den, but being a dick to the host of a comedy show makes one look like a pathetic bully.

Pro tip: if you want to look smart, powerful and generally together, don't get visibly flustered by the clown making dick jokes.
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Hedaira

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2010, 03:18:38 PM »
Quote
Well, that's just good advice for anybody, really
"After walking away from the other people backstage, Justin Bieber found a place where we could be alone -- a bathroom. We went inside and immediately his personality changed drastically. He began touching me and repeatedly said he wanted to fuck the shit out of me."

random axe

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2010, 03:50:02 PM »
I dunno.  He still seems only mildly dickish to me.  A decidedly small target in a sea of evil dicks . . . .

It's amusing to see him describing himself as a conservative, though.  His claim to fame is a radical redefinition of "torture" to overturn decades of US policy and centuries of US philosophy, and he thinks he's a conservative?  I know all the right-wing radicals and neocons like to say they're conservatives, but this guy is a professional word person.

:harumph:

pdrake

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2010, 03:51:33 PM »
i'm going to back out of this because i tend to come off as a dick on these topics. just know i agree with you all and am trying to curtail my quick trigger.
you'd be surprised how much a nutsack can stretch. you have to stretch it yourself, not a woman. they don't do it quite right.

random axe

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2010, 03:53:44 PM »
Think about baseball.

Psidefect

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2010, 03:59:38 PM »
i'm going to back out of this because i tend to come off as a dick on these topics. just know i agree with you all and am trying to curtail my quick trigger.

JUST WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN, HUH?!



Just kiddin. ;)
“You've got a lot to learn about screwing up your life, pal.” - mrcookieface
“How sad for a marriage to fail because it's not compatible with Windows 31!  But it'll happen.” - random axe
“Not my problem if they don't know how to make magic smoke out of it.” - Stormy
“Dude. That will get you out of TWO family holidaycausts.” - Stoatse
"It is my role in this drama to misunderstand things at top volume." - Hmof

mo

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Re: Sedition?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2010, 04:36:51 PM »
No. Hate the idea that they're charging people with that. That is not going anywhere good. They got these fucking redneck assholes on conspiracy to attempt murder and all kinds of illegal weapons. Good enough. They can RICO the living fuck out of their organization and that's that. Sedition laws should be unconstitutional.

Your thoughts?

Quote
§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

I'm cool with that, and I think it's a good charge for these fuckers. Seditious libel, on the other hand, which may be what you're getting at, is a different matter altogether.

I'm actually kind of glad to see this being used. It's a good time to pull it out.
It's symbolic of our struggle against reality.